white house —
As 2023 closes with violence in Gaza, a war in Ukraine and tension between the world’s largest powers, VOA White House bureau chief Patsy Widakuswara spoke with National Security Council spokesman John Kirby on foreign policy challenges in the year ahead.
This interview has been edited for clarity and brevity.
VOA: On Gaza, the president is losing a lot of goodwill from Arab states, Muslim states and the Global South at the U.N. At home, it’s costing him votes from Muslims, Arabs, progressive Democrats and young voters. At what point would the president decide that his support for Israel is costing him too much?
John Kirby, National Security Council coordinator for strategic communications: The president understands that there’s strong feelings on all sides here. People have many different views about what’s going on between Israel and Hamas and the struggle in Gaza. He respects that, he appreciates that, and we’re reaching out to communities all over the country, and of course, the world, to get their perspectives.
We just had the national security adviser in the region, the secretary of defense and of course, Secretary of State [Antony] Blinken in just a week or so before that. We’re absolutely listening and trying to get a better understanding of all these different perspectives.
That said, no nation should have to live with the threat that Hamas poses to Israel. No nation should have to live with that next door. And what Israel went through on the seventh of October was one of the most deadly terrorist attacks they’ve ever experienced, if not the deadliest terrorist attack that they ever experienced. So, we’re going to make sure that they can continue to defend themselves, at the same time, urging them to be more precise, more careful, and more cautious in the execution of those military operations. Too many civilians have been killed, and the right number is zero.
VOA: On China, is the administration bracing for a more muscular posture from Beijing, particularly as it relates to Taiwan?
Kirby: I won’t talk about the diplomatic conversations that we’ve been having with our Chinese counterparts or the meeting between President Xi [Jinping] and President [Joe] Biden. I’ll just tell you that we don’t believe that the status quo over the Taiwan Strait, tense as it may be, should be resolved unilaterally. Certainly, those tensions should not be resolved by force, and everything that the president is doing with respect to our relationships in the Indo-Pacific, including with the PRC [People’s Republic of China], is designed to prevent that outcome.
VOA: On Venezuela, should we expect a U.S. recognition of the Nicolas Maduro government in 2024?
Kirby: I don’t have anything like that to preview. We’re focused on monitoring as closely as we can President Maduro’s commitments to the electoral proposals that he promised to implement in keeping with, and with the support of, opposition parties. We want to see the democratic aspirations of the Venezuelan people respected and recognized and pursued.
VOA: This year, the U.S. secured hostage deals with Venezuela and also Iran. How would you respond to those who criticize the administration for negotiating with these regimes — one which is a state sponsor of terrorism, and the other one which you don’t consider to be legitimate?
Kirby: No apologies for working hard to get Americans that are wrongfully detained overseas back home with their families where they belong. Ten American families will now be able to spend the holidays together because of the work that this administration did with respect to Venezuela, and that we’re going to continue to do to get wrongfully detained Americans home.
VOA: As we approach the end of 2023, we may not be able to continue to support Ukraine’s fight against Russia. Twenty thousand people are dead in Gaza with no end in sight in fighting. The Houthis are attacking ships in the Red Sea. Xi Jinping is moving to take Taiwan. Kim Jong Un has ICBMs that may be able to reach the U.S. What does that say about President Biden, who ran on a campaign that he’s experienced on foreign policy?
Kirby: All those examples you just laid out are examples of how turbulent this international environment is. As the president has said, we’re at an inflection point, and democracy is under threat all around the world. Some of the examples that you just laid out are examples of exactly that — Israel, Ukraine in particular.
We’ve seen a threat to democracy here on our own home shores just up the road here, on Capitol Hill. We are at a very significant moment in history. And when you’re at a moment like that, you want a leader. You want a commander in chief who understands these relationships, who knows that history, who can pick up the phone and call a foreign leader and try to get something done — as we did in recent days to get Americans home out of Venezuela, as we did to try to get additional humanitarian assistance into Gaza over the objections of some in the Israeli government. That’s what President Biden brings to this very turbulent world here that we’re seeing.
VOA: Can we expect the same kind of commitment and focus from President Biden next year, an election year?
Kirby: One hundred percent.
